[12:09] Cybergrrl Oh: I'm Cybergrrl Oh aka Aliza Sherman - SL personality and events host. Owner of Athena Isle. Multitasker.
[12:10] AaronHunt Xerox: I'm Aaron, marketing manager at Xerox, focused on mid sized businesses
[12:11] Andy Evans: I am Andy Evans, CEO of First Opinions Panel, the largest consumer research panel here with about 10,000 members.
[12:11] DonP Pelous: O KKKKK - I'm Don, co-author of this book
[12:12] Cybergrrl Oh: Big book - behind you all
[12:12] Joycie Hiller: I am a Strategic Business Futurist in my first life.
[12:12] Alycia Freenote: Alycia Freenote a.k.a. Alyica de Mesa branding consultant, writer and author of Brand Avatar.
[12:15] Natalina DeVinna: stay at home Mom
[12:15] DonP Pelous: how many kids?
[12:15] Natalina DeVinna: spend in SL all my spare time...
[12:15] Cybergrrl Oh: don't we all! and then some
[12:15] DonP Pelous: Our last of five just went off to boarding school
[12:15] DonP Pelous: so we are now empty nesters
[12:16] Cybergrrl Oh: mine is 20 months
[12:16] Alycia Freenote: lucky you Don ; )
[12:16] DonP Pelous: that is a GREAT age!
[12:16] Natalina DeVinna: I may represent SL magazine "Live" if I find this meeting interesting to write about in the magazine
[12:16] Natalina DeVinna: one son 4yrs
[12:16] DonP Pelous: right. lots of college still to pay for
[12:16] Cybergrrl Oh: well, Don is under pressure!
[12:16] Cybergrrl Oh: OK - Don, I turn things over to you with ONE RULE for our attendees
[12:16] Cybergrrl Oh: RULE: Type QUESTION in front of your question so Don and I can see it.
[12:17] Cybergrrl Oh: Otherwise, this is a roundtable so comment at will.
[12:17] DonP Pelous: There are three "rules to break"
[12:17] Cybergrrl Oh: Go Don go!
[12:17] DonP Pelous: First, is that current earnings at a company should be the primary goal
[12:17] DonP Pelous: Too many firms ONLY see current earnings
[12:17] DonP Pelous: and don't think about long-term value
[12:18] DonP Pelous: But second, is that with good marketing you can always get more customers
[12:18] DonP Pelous: because you can't
[12:18] DonP Pelous: customers, in fact, are scarcer than money
[12:19] DonP Pelous: final "rule to break" is that value is created with differentiated products
[12:19] DonP Pelous: also false
[12:19] DonP Pelous: only customers create value, really
[12:19] DonP Pelous: sorry about the typing, my wife's computer
[12:19] DonP Pelous: missing an L key!
[12:19] Cybergrrl Oh: missing an L key?
[12:20] Gina Glimmer giggles
[12:20] Gina Glimmer: the L key
[12:20] DonP Pelous: just a little stub, no tab
[12:20] DonP Pelous: so trying to avoid those L words!
[12:20] Cybergrrl Oh: So what you are saying flies in the face of what many of us have known to be true
[12:20] Cybergrrl Oh: but I totally agree about customers create the value
[12:20] Joycie Hiller: QUESTION: I thought that we created the perception of value in the minds of the customers?
[12:20] DonP Pelous: the perception of value is what gives you great customer lifetime values
[12:21] DonP Pelous: that's long term value
[12:21] DonP Pelous: problem is that most firms focus only on produce sales, which is short term
[12:21] DonP Pelous: here's a question for you
[12:22] DonP Pelous: what do YOU think customers value most in a firm?
[12:22] Elzbiet Meili: I think education is what truly counts..
[12:22] DonP Pelous: why does a customer choose you?
[12:22] AaronHunt Xerox: perceived value, ease of doing business
[12:23] DonP Pelous: ok, but what if you're choosing between two firms with the same basic product and price?
[12:23] Joycie Hiller: Unique product offerings, delivered on time with back up.
[12:23] DonP Pelous: what makes your decision for you?
[12:23] Elzbiet Meili: customer service
[12:23] DonP Pelous: what is that, though?
[12:23] Alycia Freenote: it's till about value and perception
[12:23] Joycie Hiller: I agree with Alycia
[12:23] DonP Pelous: so what makes the perception, is what I'm asking
[12:23] Elzbiet Meili: being treated like a person instead of merely commission
[12:23] AaronHunt Xerox: and you may not know about customer service until something goes wrong
[12:24] Alycia Freenote: that's branding
[12:24] DonP Pelous: when you're treated like a person, what does that entail?
[12:24] Joycie Hiller: The perspective and POV of the customer.
[12:24] DonP Pelous: RIGHT
[12:24] DonP Pelous: I think taking the POV of the customer is important
[12:24] DonP Pelous: probably more important than almost anything else
[12:24] Joycie Hiller: It's MOST important
[12:24] Elzbiet Meili: well, a customer shouldn't feel like they're in the way
[12:24] AaronHunt Xerox: The customer isn't always thinking about your product though
[12:25] DonP Pelous: Two Canadian professors asked thousands of execs this question
[12:25] AaronHunt Xerox: they have more important things to think about, like their business
[12:25] DonP Pelous: why do customers choose you
[12:25] DonP Pelous: and answers in every industry are similar
[12:25] DonP Pelous: TRUST
[12:25] DonP Pelous: our customers choose us because they know us and trust us
[12:25] Joycie Hiller: Interesting.
[12:25] DonP Pelous: Aaron, you are so right
[12:25] Joycie Hiller: Have you read Stephen MR Covey's book “The Speed of Trust?”
[12:26] DonP Pelous: Customers could hardly care less about your product
[12:26] Cybergrrl Oh: the TRUST in YOU?
[12:26] DonP Pelous: I LOVE Covey's book, we cite it in ours several times
[12:26] DonP Pelous: Taking customer's POV means seeing things from their eyes
[12:27] DonP Pelous: Treat the customer the way you would like to be treated if you were the customer
[12:27] Cybergrrl Oh:QUESTION: So customers choose YOU and not your product? the TRUST is in YOU?
[12:27] DonP Pelous: THAT is the secret to creating trust
[12:27] Elzbiet Meili: depends on the product, I suppose.
[12:27] DonP Pelous: yes, IF we're dealing in a world of basically commoditized products
[12:27] DonP Pelous: which is what we have these days
[12:28] DonP Pelous: Very hard to have a unique and unduplicated product for very long
[12:28] Elzbiet Meili: true that
[12:28] Cybergrrl Oh: QUESTION: So does this mean that we build OUR brands as the company/company owner and build that relationship with the customer?
[12:28] Cybergrrl Oh: build that trust?
[12:29] DonP Pelous: So one of our "Laws to Follow" is Earn and keep the trust of customers
[12:29] DonP Pelous: that sometimes means forgoing short term sales opps for long-term reasons
[12:29] Elzbiet Meili: Which again, is why i say education. People want to learn tricks and tips.. about how to avoid hassles, make things more convenient, etc.. and in some cases, things that help them become more self-sufficient
[12:29] Cybergrrl Oh: YES!
[12:29] DonP Pelous: and providing that info can be a big service to customers
[12:29] Alycia Freenote: QUESTION: what's an example of forgoing the short term Don?
[12:30] DonP Pelous: can go a long way to encouraging trust
[12:30] Aldon Huffhines: QUESTION: Where does the community fit in, e.g. I trust a person that trusts the brand?
[12:30] DonP Pelous: Anyone an Amazon customer here?
[12:30] Elzbiet Meili: occasionally
[12:30] Aldon Huffhines: Yup
[12:30] Alycia Freenote: yes
[12:30] DonP Pelous: Amazon has a policy - when you go to buy a book that you've already bought, they REMIND you that you already bought it
[12:30] DonP Pelous: case you forgot
[12:30] Cybergrrl Oh: Really? Great!
[12:31] Joycie Hiller: That's cool.
[12:31] DonP Pelous: if they just kept quiet, they'd sell another book right now
[12:31] Cybergrrl Oh: That's a trust builder - don't sell me something I already have and waste my money
[12:31] DonP Pelous: but instead, they'r3e banking on getting way way more business from you in the future
[12:31] Cybergrrl Oh: QUESTION: Do you agree Amazon has done alot right? What have they done wrong?
[12:31] DonP Pelous: At Microsoft, when they sell SQL servers
[12:31] DonP Pelous: those sales come with coupons for free training
[12:32] DonP Pelous: but only about 20% of the coupons were redeemed a couple of years ago
[12:32] DonP Pelous: so they began REMINDING customers they had these free coupons
[12:32] DonP Pelous: no additional revenue for MS, just a service for customers
[12:32] DonP Pelous: in fact it cost MS money to do it
[12:33] DonP Pelous: SO these are examples of great trust building
[12:33] AaronHunt Xerox: but they were building customer relationships, the challenge is justifying that cost
[12:33] Elzbiet Meili: Many just want the piece of mind knowing you're there when they need you, even if they may never need you
[12:33] Cybergrrl Oh: QUESTION: What about Amazon - have they ever broke trust in a big way?
[12:33] Cybergrrl Oh: Or are they ...perfect?
[12:33] DonP Pelous: I don't know of an instance, but I don't think they're perfect
[12:34] Alycia Freenote: QUESTION: wouldn't you agree that that's relationship building Don?
[12:34] DonP Pelous: ever get a children's book suggested to you because you once bought a gift for your niece?
[12:34] DonP Pelous: and yes, this is relationship building
[12:34] DonP Pelous: :)
[12:34] Joycie Hiller: Don, that is very interesting. Yahoo broke my trust when they charged me $600 for clicks in 6 hours. They never got me back as a customer.
[12:34] Cybergrrl Oh: QUESTION: What do you think about social networks and "friending" in those forums as a way of building relationships with customers?
[12:34] Elzbiet Meili: my regards.. customers call!
[12:35] DonP Pelous: It's a good idea, if you do it right
[12:35] DonP Pelous: saw an article in NYT about WalMart's new blog policy
[12:35] DonP Pelous: REAL people at WalMart are doing the honest blogging
[12:36] DonP Pelous: Very cool, and WM doesn't edit these at all
[12:36] DonP Pelous: but it's easy to go wrong here too
[12:36] DonJuan Writer: I guess not wanting to lose ones job polices that
[12:36] Cybergrrl Oh: QUESTION: But didn't WM really screw up with fake bloggers? Paid writers?
[12:36] DonP Pelous: research says only 1 out of about 8 "word of mouth" campaigns by companies succeed
[12:36] DonJuan Writer: the Walmart thing
[12:36] DonP Pelous: yes, they did originally
[12:37] DonP Pelous: that's why their new policy is cool
[12:37] DonJuan Writer: coooool
[12:37] Andy Evans: QUESTION: I wonder if WOM is more powerful in SL vs in RL
[12:37] DonJuan Writer: satan works in marketing
[12:38] DonP Pelous: I think WOM is most powerful online, for sure
[12:38] DonP Pelous: because the interactions with others are instant and numerous
[12:38] DonP Pelous: no friction
[12:38] DonP Pelous: but networks are unpredictable
[12:38] AaronHunt Xerox: not to mention, rather anonymous in some areas
[12:38] DonP Pelous: so VERY difficult to manage it effectively if you're a company
[12:38] Joycie Hiller: Yes, there is an immediacy to online interactions.
[12:39] DonP Pelous: anonymity is bad for a company
[12:39] Andy Evans: QUESTION: this might be an interesting area to study, difference in wom in sl vs rl
[12:39] DonP Pelous: you will ALWAYS be outed, sooner or later
[12:39] Joycie Hiller: What do you mean by that?
[12:39] AaronHunt Xerox: you can't post as a fake, someone will figure it out
[12:40] Joycie Hiller: Oh, that was about anonymity
[12:40] AaronHunt Xerox: it's a challenge though to read posts, most end up very negative no matter what the topic
[12:40] DonP Pelous: but which would you rather have?
[12:40] DonP Pelous: those posts going online somewhere else or on your own product web site?
[12:40] Joycie Hiller: It's the old adage: Bad news sells.
[12:41] DonP Pelous: LOTS of research now saying companies that are just open and above board are gaining the advantage
[12:41] Cybergrrl Oh: Bad news travels fast - esp. in cyberspace and the blogosphere
[12:41] Joycie Hiller: Unfortunately, it is too true
[12:41] DonP Pelous: remember when JetBlue melted down last year?
[12:42] DonP Pelous: JetBlue's best customers came to their rescue in the blogosphere
[12:42] Cybergrrl Oh: Really?
[12:42] DonP Pelous: right. Network news terrible stories
[12:42] DonP Pelous: but within a month, most frequent customers
[12:42] DonP Pelous: customers who DEPENDED on JB, were coming to their rescue
[12:42] DonP Pelous: online
[12:43] Cybergrrl Oh: QUESTION: What was the problem/trouble/bad news?
[12:43] DonP Pelous: the ice storm on Valentines Day 2007
[12:43] Cybergrrl Oh: QUESTION: What is and what ISN'T curable by good blogging from customers?
[12:43] DonP Pelous: 1000 flights cancelled
[12:43] DonP Pelous: other airlines also had problems
[12:43] DonP Pelous: but JB is based at JFK, which is where the storm hit
[12:44] Cybergrrl Oh: QUESTION: What is and what ISN'T curable by good blogging from customers?
[12:44] DonP Pelous: Aaron is right, you can't predict these things
[12:44] DonP Pelous: all you can do is prepare for them by building up the trust customers have in you
[12:44] Andy Evans: The problem was Jet Blue acted like they had never anticipated weather delays and stranded tens of thousands of customers...
[12:44] DonP Pelous: I think JB was at fault for not preparing.
[12:45] DonP Pelous: no question. but then they took responsibility
[12:45] DonP Pelous: began saying we're sorry, we screwed up, we know, but we'll be better
[12:45] Alycia Freenote: it's amazing how many companies DON't do that!
[12:45] DonP Pelous: right
[12:46] DonP Pelous: and the first people to the scene of a problem are almost always the PR hacks
[12:46] DonP Pelous: spin doesn't equal honesty
[12:46] AaronHunt Xerox: they'd rather spin the situation then admit a mistake
[12:46] AaronHunt Xerox: i can say that, I'm in marketing ;)
[12:46] DonP Pelous: 100% correct
[12:46] Alycia Freenote: and to your point Don, how can you build trust with customers without honesty?!
[12:47] DonP Pelous: you can't - that's the point
[12:47] DonP Pelous: doesn't mean you don't have competitive secrets
[12:47] DonP Pelous: but with customers, to extent possible, you're open and honest and straight
[12:47] DonP Pelous: USAA is a great example, too
[12:48] DonP Pelous: any USAA members here?
[12:48] DonP Pelous: USAA is an insurance company renowned for talking customers down from the higher amount policies they are ready to buy
[12:49] DonP Pelous: members swap stories about it
[12:49] DonP Pelous: Here's another benefit of trust
[12:49] DonP Pelous: it's inelastic
[12:49] DonP Pelous: no one every has "some" integrity
[12:50] DonP Pelous: so if you try to earn the trust of customers - if that's your mission - then you'll also earn trust of employees and stakeholders
[12:50] AaronHunt Xerox: a no upselling program must have taken some pretty heavy support from the C level
[12:50] AaronHunt Xerox: along with some non sales focus up the food chain...
[12:50] DonP Pelous: yes, it's in the corporate culture tho
[12:51] DonP Pelous: the rules and procedures don't cover it
[12:51] DonP Pelous: technology undermines hierarchy
[12:51] AaronHunt Xerox: that's a challenge no matter what size your company is
[12:51] AaronHunt Xerox: shareholder may not like you saying, I'm not going to sell as much, but my customers trust me more
[12:51] DonP Pelous: but if you do it right, you will have a company that has a lasting franchise
[12:52] DonP Pelous: In our last book, Return on Customer, the first chapter was An open Letter to Wall Street
[12:52] DonP Pelous: about that very thing
[12:52] Alycia Freenote: You said trust is inelastic...but no company is perfect...how do you balance credibility and the "humanness" of companies
[12:52] DonP Pelous: getting investors to buy into this idea for long term value
[12:52] DonP Pelous: I don't believe all this "manage by numbers" stuff is really working very well
[12:53] AaronHunt Xerox: that's challenge following the '90's buy and sell attitudes
[12:53] DonP Pelous: manage by PEOPLE is what you need
[12:53] DonP Pelous: and how, Aaron
[12:53] DonP Pelous: buy and flip
[12:53] AaronHunt Xerox: there is a lack of patience in companies
[12:53] DonP Pelous: yes, we call this jabbing at the elevator buttons
[12:54] AaronHunt Xerox: if it takes your stock price time to turn around, I'm going to lose faith in you
[12:54] Joycie Hiller: Don, you would be surprised just how much importance "metrics" has in Human Resources now.
[12:54] DonP Pelous: like when you're waiting for it to come and you just keep punching the button
[12:54] DonP Pelous: Joycie: the metrics I'm most interested in are those that incorporate long term value creation
[12:54] Andy Evans: QUESTION: I have a good name for this, "Trust Lag"
[12:54] Alycia Freenote: QUESTION: so what does a public company do to quite jabbing the elevator buttons?
[12:55] Joycie Hiller: No body is paying attention to that, b/c they are not paid on that
[12:55] Joycie Hiller: It's very sad.
[12:55] DonP Pelous: agree
[12:55] DonP Pelous: i've been to companies where the "mission" of the firm, posted on the wall
[12:55] DonP Pelous: is to do what's best for the customer, but
[12:55] DonP Pelous: what people spend their time on is making the numbers, no matter what
[12:56] DonP Pelous: that's what we call culture
[12:56] DonP Pelous: what your employees do when no one is watching
[12:56] Joycie Hiller: If we don't stop paying people that way, we will NEVER affect changes in behaviors
[12:56] DonP Pelous: the modern firm will benefit from having self-organizing employees
[12:56] DonP Pelous: it's not just the pay
[12:56] DonP Pelous: it's the intrinsic rewards
[12:57] DonP Pelous: how much in control of my own situation am i
[12:57] DonP Pelous: how supported am i?
[12:57] Joycie Hiller: Yes, it is the whole picture
[12:57] Alycia Freenote: That may be the ultimate example of company/brand trust - with the employees 24/7
[12:57] DonP Pelous: exactly
[12:57] DonP Pelous: another "Law to Follow" is to earn the trust of customers FIRST earn the trust of employees
[12:58] DonP Pelous: problem is fewer than half the employees in a typical company actually trust their employer
[12:58] Joycie Hiller: People look at their total compensation and benefit pkgs and factor in the non-financial
[12:58] AaronHunt Xerox: a constant challenge in a slowing economy...
[12:58] DonP Pelous: but now is the RIGHT time for this
[12:58] Joycie Hiller: When we wrote our book "How to Choose Your Next Employer" there was a whole chapter on the non-financial
[12:58] DonP Pelous: competing on a customer-by-customer basis is perfect for a down economy
[12:59] DonP Pelous: I'm going to get a copy of that book, J
[12:59] Alycia Freenote: QUESTION: Don, can you expand on that more?
[12:59] Joycie Hiller: I'll send you one!
[12:59] DonP Pelous: what i means is that even in the very worst economy you can imagine
[12:59] DonP Pelous: SOME customers are still buying
[13:00] AaronHunt Xerox: many still have to, just to run their businesses
[13:00] DonP Pelous: and some will be doing better than others, just you have to know who
[13:00] AaronHunt Xerox: their seems to be a shift in employees though to get back to your earlier statement
[13:00] AaronHunt Xerox: we're more connected
[13:00] DonP Pelous: more now than ever
[13:01] AaronHunt Xerox: right, IM, email, even internal blogs
[13:01] DonP Pelous: mobile, etc etc
[13:01] DonP Pelous: every month i see some new medium for interacting with consumers
[13:01] AaronHunt Xerox: the challenge is trying to find the right one and the right customers
[13:02] DonP Pelous: so right
[13:02] AaronHunt Xerox: the right one for your business that is
[13:02] DonP Pelous: agreed
[13:02] DonP Pelous: so customer insight is more valuable now than ever
[13:02] DonP Pelous: especially in a down economy
[13:02] Alycia Freenote: Don - I believe we're at about time...any closing thoughts?
[13:02] DonP Pelous: Hey, everyone was nice seeing al of you
[13:02] DonP Pelous: sorry about my L key
[13:03] DonP Pelous: but if you enjoyed the discussion, you might like our book
[13:03] AaronHunt Xerox: do you have follow up or contact information for us
[13:03] DonP Pelous: you can email me directly at
[13:03] AaronHunt Xerox: website...blog...i know you must
[13:03] DonP Pelous: dpeppers@1to1.com
[13:03] DonP Pelous: or our web site www.1to1.com
[13:03] DonP Pelous: and blog there, too
[13:04] DonP Pelous: ciao!
[13:04] AaronHunt Xerox: thanks, bye everyone
[13:04] Sloan Skjellerup: bye thank you
[13:04] Alycia Freenote: Thanks Don for speaking today!
[13:04] Andy Evans: thanks!
[13:04] DonP Pelous: my pleasure
[13:04] Gina Glimmer: ty!
[13:04] Alycia Freenote: And thanks for coming out everyone!
[13:05] Natalina DeVinna: thank you Don... I hope to hear more about your book.. bye everyone ;)
